Thema "Betreff: Costs for 1 EUR investing plans?" in Wertpapiere & Anlage

Costs for 1 EUR investing plans?

SCiruelos — Thu, 07 Mar 2024 12:21:30 GMT

I have got a question. Comdirect offer currently a new depot which should be at 0 cost for 3 years. This offer is valid until 31.03.

At the same time, they are offering recently investing plans as low as 1 EUR/saving rate. I think they are getting quite scared from Trade Republic, Scalable and all those.

However, it is unclear to me what will be the costs for these investing plans with 1 EUR/saving rate.

One should assume that there will not be costs for those investment plans. Is this correct?

Betreff: Costs for 1 EUR investing plans?

Thorsten_ — Thu, 07 Mar 2024 12:39:12 GMT

The so-called "Top-Preis ETF", "KomfortFonds" and "Top-Preis Fonds" are without cost in an investment plan. See https://www.comdirect.de/geldanlage/wertpapier-sparplan.html

All other shares/bonds/funds etc. are charged 1.5 % of the investment sum when buying via investment plan.

Listed "TOP-Preis ETF/Fonds/KomfortFonds" can lose that status at any time. Usually there are some changes at the beginning of each year.

Betreff: Costs for 1 EUR investing plans?

Krügerrand — Thu, 07 Mar 2024 12:37:29 GMT

There are also "Top-Preis Fonds", which are actively manageged mutual funds, with a 100% discount on the purchase provision.

Betreff: Costs for 1 EUR investing plans?

SCiruelos — Thu, 07 Mar 2024 12:55:08 GMT

Thanks. Interesting.

But if one invest 1 EUR/ rate, the cost will be 1 Cent or 2 Cents (because it can not be 0,015, which is strictly speaking 1,5%). They need to round up 0,015 either to 0,01 or 0,02.

Do you know that?

Betreff: Costs for 1 EUR investing plans?

Krügerrand — Thu, 07 Mar 2024 14:09:26 GMT

The rounding rules for commercial purposes are, that you round up with a 5 and higher. Following that it would be 2 cent.

Edit:

Haha you tricked me by leading me on the wrong path.

The fee is already in the 1 EUR plan.

So to find out the fee in EUR it is 1,00/1,015 -1= which is 1,478 cents and you most likely will get fund shares in the value of 98,5222 cents, while 1 EUR will be debited from your account.

Betreff: Costs for 1 EUR investing plans?

Thorsten_ — Thu, 07 Mar 2024 13:29:05 GMT

Short: "It's complicated." 😉

Long:

1) Comdirect is working with 3 positions after decimal point for fractional shares.

2) Comdirect is not charging "investment sum + cost" but "investment sum including cost".

So it depends on the price of one share.

Let's do an example:

1 € invest splits up in 0.99 € for the investment plan and 0.01 € for charges (see @Krügerrand's posting one above which he wrote while I was typing this 😉 )
NVIDIA CORP. DL-,001 (918422) is around 820 € each. So for 0.99 € you'd get 0.99/820=0.001207... fractional shares.
Given 3 digits after decimal point, Comdirect will buy 0.001 fractional shares. Calculated backwards they will then cost 0.001*820 €=0.82 €.
1.5 % charges are 0.82 €*0.015=0.01 € which results in 0.82 €+0.01 €=0.83 € you'll have to pay.

The lower the price for one unit, the closer this caluculation will hit the target of resulting in 1 € overall cost including charges.

I hope I made no mistake and this explains how Comdirect is calculating.

Betreff: Costs for 1 EUR investing plans?

SCiruelos — Thu, 07 Mar 2024 13:42:28 GMT

Thanks a lot. Very useful.

However, they should indicate this clearly: fees ARE INCLUDED in the investment rate. They want to give people the "ilusion" that they do not pay fees by charging them the saving rate. What a cheap trick !

Betreff: Costs for 1 EUR investing plans?

Krügerrand — Thu, 07 Mar 2024 13:45:52 GMT

Well, it is.

Nur 1,5 % des Ordervolumens pro Transaktion und Wertpapierkennnummer (in der Sparrate enthalten)

https://www.comdirect.de/geldanlage/wertpapier-sparplan.html

Any recomendations on font and size? 😉

Betreff: Costs for 1 EUR investing plans?

Thorsten_ — Thu, 07 Mar 2024 13:59:14 GMT

It's clearly stated when you set up an investment plan, it's in the bill you receive each time the investment plan is executed, it's in the "Preisverzeichnis" and so on. I can't see no illusion.

And by the way: the depot is always free of charge if you have an investment plan which is executed at least once per quarter. No need for a special offer.

Betreff: Costs for 1 EUR investing plans?

KWie2 — Thu, 07 Mar 2024 21:35:37 GMT

Hi,

splitting hairs with split shares?

First of all, some calculations here are not correct.

Where a split share purchased in a savings plan is not free of charge anyway (see above) 1,5% is already contained in the savings plan nominal.

In such a savings plan 1,00€ - ridiculously small as it may be -, 1,015 times the split price are up to 1,00€.

Comdirect, as of now, always truncates split shares to 3 digits, so the real amount of investment is always lower or equal than 1€/1,015 = 0,98522…€.

Hence, the fee will always be lower or equal 1€ - 1€/1,05 = 0,014778…€ that will be truncated to 0,01€.

Example:

You try to save 1,00€ of a non special product with a price of 123,45€ per share. 0,001 times 123,45€ = 12,3 €-cent (truncation of the numbers of shares to 3 digits).

Now 0,98522€/0,12345€ = 7,98 split share units. These will always be truncated - not rounded. So You‘d buy 7/1000 times 123,45€ = 0,86€ plus 0,01€ fee equals 0,87€ withdrawn off Your account.

This is more interesting for the really poor, who can not maintain a reasonable savings rate at the most clumsy of times and still like their account to be kept free of charge.

All other applications of such a ridiculously low savings rate seem out of bounds to me.

Regards: KWie2

Betreff: Costs for 1 EUR investing plans?

Krügerrand — Thu, 07 Mar 2024 14:21:28 GMT

If it is already truncated in the beginning (and at every step of the calculation) for 0,001 of a share, you should divide the Investment amount from the 1 EUR by 12,3 cent and not by 12,345 cent. This would then give you 8,009932 truncated to 0,008 shares.

This translates to 0,9876 EUR truncated to 0,987 EUR. Adding 1,5% = 0,0147 EUR truncated to 0,014 adding up to 1,001 EUR truncated to 1,00 EUR.

Is it at every step of the calculation?